I know the forum has been 'live' for only a few days but I'm getting impatient to see some matters up for discussion. So here's a controversial one to help fill the gap:

During the past two or three years we have lost several breakdown cranes to the scrappies. At least one of those cranes was of some special historical importance, and another (one of only two of its type) appeared to be in surprisingly good condition not so long ago.

Co-incidentally, those cranes were weighed in at a time of high scrap metal prices, though I hesitate to suggest that this played any part in the decision to scrap them.

But can you imagine the fuss if they had been historic locomotives rather than breakdown cranes? It would have been a front page topic in the railway press!

So who is to blame for this apparent apathy? Is it the fault of the railway press or does the typical railway enthusiast need to remove his blinkers and look at the wider scene?

i guess ownership is a factor. A chap from Rutlands railway museam was telling me not so long ago about the problem with one of their cranes. The short story was they had no money or plans to restore it but despite trying they could not "give it away". they could not sell it privately or scrap it as it had "museam status". (I am sure there are create ways around this)

on the other hand privately cranes owners can do what they want. and i am sure money come into this big time!! but why they would not offer it up for sale first i do not know... I can only guess that selling/rehome a crane cost money and take time..

I think that perhaps the biggest problem facing owners is that a breakdown crane does not generate significant revenue for the host railway, and as such there is little interest from the host railway in sinking hard-earned cash into them, especially when other projects with a greater return-on-investment are crying out for funding.

The more imaginative railways manage to use their cranes fairly effectively and perhaps can keep costs down, but I doubt that a major overhaul of a crane would be contemplated in normal circumstances.

I suspect that most railways - certainly those which are registered charities - have declared that the preservation and operation of heritage railway machinery is one of their raison d'etres, and this should include the whole gamut of equipment.

I think also that if an owner was to offer a crane for sale at the moment, it is very unlikely that any offer from within the preservation movement would approach the intrinsic scrap value of the crane, which undoubtedly means that it said owner was to need a quick recovery of some readies the scrappy looks to be the attractive option.

There are certain cranes which I consider at present to be 'at risk' which are far too valuable from an historic standpoint for scrapping to be acceptable, and this is one area where I hope that the BDCA could be influential if the need arises.

I think a number of factors come into play. If the crane is operational then it can be an asset to a heritage railway for infrastructure and locomotive (boiler/engine) lifts provided of course there are trained and competent people to operate the crane and plan the lifts. You can not under today’s Health and Safety rules just trundle around lifting things as your fancy takes you with your crane. However an operational crane is not going to earn the owner much money if any and therefore the costs of maintaining the crane will have to be found from other sources. If the crane is non operational then all the cost issues multiply because you are having to fund the restoration instead of the on going maintenance, you can not earn any money from using the crane and you are taking valuable siding space on the heritage railway without providing any benefit to the railway. On a lot of Heritage railways siding space is at a premium and it may well be this pressure that sends a crane to the scrap yard.

John, you raise some very good points.

One of the main reasons (in fact, probably the trigger) for the creation of the BDCA was the need to operate heritage cranes within the present H&S and regulatory guidelines, a requirement which initially appears onerous but in fact need not be.

Another modern evil with which we have to cope, and which I am told was the main reason for the most recent breakdown crane scrapping, is the widespread prevalence of metal theft no doubt encouraged by the high price of scrap. As far too many people are finding out, in a matter of hourse these thieving villains can strip enough parts to render a crane (or even a locomotive) beyond economic repair. Until those charged with maintaining law and order in this country start to take this type of crime seriously and introduce effective controls (after all this metal must be being sold somewhere) this is unlikely to change.